Deja Vu: Tennessee, Scotty Hopson Stage a Big Comeback and Beat #18 Vanderbilt 60-51
by Christian D'Andrea on Feb 22, 2011 11:21 PM EST
in Vanderbilt Commodores Basketball
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PrintOnce Vanderbilt opened up a double-digit lead, the Commodores were cooked.
Vandy blew their second big lead in as many games against the Volunteers as they couldn't hold an 11 point advantage in the second half against their in-state arch rivals. The 'Dores couldn't locate their offense and fell apart as the game wore on, failing to score at all in the final five minutes and recording just one field goal over the last 10:34. The team's offensive dynamos John Jenkins and Jeffery Taylor were just that -offensive - combining for only 20 points on a 8-23 shooting night.
Tennessee led late into the first half on the strength of their offensive rebounds and Vanderbilt's sloppiness. Turnovers and second chances kept VU's high octane offense from settling into gear as the Commodores couldn't find their rhythm to start the game. However, the Volunteers couldn't capitalize on Vandy's struggles, failing to convert field goals in the paint and allowing the 'Dores to stick around. Both teams settled for long jumpers early in the shot clock that stopped falling as the half wore down, grinding the game down to a sloppy crawl.
The Commodores came alive in the second half during a sloppy, fast-paced run that played to the home team's athleticism. Vandy took advantage of UT misses and Festus Ezeli blocks to key a 13-5 run that put the 'Dores up 42-31 with 12:55 to play.
However, the Vols and Scotty Hopson wouldn't be denied. Tennessee was disruptive on defense and worked to get better looks in the paint on offense to regain the lead in the midst of a 29-9 run. Vanderbilt trailed 55-51 with just 1:14 to play, but had the ball and the confidence of a few clutch performances over recent weeks behind them. Unfortunately for Kevin Stallings's team, the missteps that doomed them earlier in the season during big games came back to haunt them again.
The 'Dores had a chance to cut the UT lead to 2, but Lance Goulbourne missed a pair of free throws to doom the Commodores. The Vols hit their free throws down the stretch and were simply the more composed team in the clutch - just like they were in the teams' first meeting in January.
Festus Ezeli and Steve Tchiengang were the team's most effective scorers, but each fouled out late in the game, leaving the 'Dores punch-less in the clutch. Tennessee earned their win by disrupting Vandy's offense and creating turnovers - finishing with an impressive 15 steals against a sloppy Commodore backcourt. Scotty Hopson finished with 19 points, most coming in the second half, and Tobias Harris tallied a double-double (10 points, 11 rebounds) for the Vols.
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Saving your two worst efforts of the season for you arch rival?
Priceless.
At least this time Tennessee actually deserved to win.
We look like deer in the headlights tonight. I did NOT see that coming.
by BrianSWard on Feb 23, 2011 12:01 AM EST via mobile reply actions
At least we finally got to see what it looks like when both JJ and JT have off nights
Spoiler: It’s fucking terrible.
by Christian D'Andrea on Feb 23, 2011 12:05 AM EST up reply actions
Shit, not just them even
Lance: 2 pts
Brad: 0 FG (all points off FT)
Andre, Rod, Kyle: 0 pts
This team flat out didn’t show up tonight. CKS is going to be on stroke watch.
"Well, if that ain't a show, I'll kiss your ass." - Gov. Jim Folsom Sr. (D-AL), 1948-52
by VandyImport on Feb 23, 2011 12:09 AM EST up reply actions
Product of the system?
I can’t help but think, as I watch this same scenario play itself out game after game, how long VU’s policy of recruiting STUDENT-athletes is going to continue to come back and bite us in the ass. Recruiting kids from private high school gyms and from overseas is fine, but if you are competing against schools who recruit from inner city courts and huge public high school teams, we’re never going to be able to match the physical intensity and toughness of teams like UT.
Don’t misinterpret my tone; I wouldn’t change a thing that our university, coaches, and recruiting staff do; Vanderbilt puts out some of the finest student athletes and college graduates this country has to offer while maintaining an excellent level of competitiveness on the court. However, you have to wonder if a change of scenery would do the Commodores a bit of good. There are the shining examples, the Dukes, the Stanfords, the schools who succeed where Vanderbilt seems to fall just short – who are able to make their pencil-pushing recruits put aside their upbringing and just play the game: to be tough, physical, and show no mercy.
This brings me to my point – after a debaucle such as the one we witnessed tonight in Memorial Gym, and have witnessed several other times this season and in the NCAA tournament for the past 2 years, you have to wonder how long CKS is going to remain the head coach of Vanderbilt men’s basketball. His teams perennially fall short of the mark in toughness and resolve down the stretch – sure there are examples which contradict the norm, but the fact is that Vanderbilt basketball players seem to currently lack the resolve and drive necessary to compete at the elite level to which they strive.
I hope someone out there agrees with me, or can at least help me rationalize these thoughts – I will be a lifelong VU supporter no matter what, and I wish the team the best of luck throughout the remainder of the regular season and postseason. Go Dores.
by Bob_Loblaw_Law_Blog on Feb 23, 2011 12:25 AM EST reply actions
I think the problem is frontcourt...
Odom’s a freshman, Walker’s spent the whole year hurt, and Taylor just hasn’t happened. We have some toughness up front – Festus Ezili is a revelation and better than anyone expected – but this team just hasn’t had the resources to play physical. Now, if we return everyone next year and still can’t put a body on people, then it will definitely be time to start asking questions about whether we’re coaching up the power positions properly.
As it is, right now our best player is a 2-guard, and our top incoming talents next year are a 1 and a 2. We’re just not optimized to play halfcourt power-in-the-paint basketball given our personnel limitations this year. It’s probably too late to turn it around right now, but if we should be lucky enough to return Ezili, Walker AND Taylor, we absolutely need to put offseason emphasis on just bearing down and taking it to the hole. Jenkins is headed that way – not there yet as demonstrated tonight, but getting there – and I don’t doubt we could rumble with the best of ’em given the depth and a focus on frontcourt play.
"Well, if that ain't a show, I'll kiss your ass." - Gov. Jim Folsom Sr. (D-AL), 1948-52
by VandyImport on Feb 23, 2011 12:33 AM EST up reply actions
If you’re going to point to the system, I’d rather point to the fact that we rarely recruit top-level bigs at the same level as guards/wings, rather than the idea that we aren’t getting inner city kids (which I don’t buy into being a source of our lack of physical play) as the lack of a good portion of the toughness that this team is lacking. Some of that is mental, but the lack of aggressive post players on this team, both in games and instilling a culture in practice, may be to blame.
Since we always end up with a greater concentration of wing players, we just tend not to develop that nastiness on the interior. We’ve got tough guys, but they’re tough within the confines of Vanderbilt basketball – where they play every day in a guard/wing heavy environment. Here’s a look at recruiting trends:
Rivals Top150 guards/wings since 2002 (18): Mario Moore, Shan Foster, DeMarre Carroll (remember, he was recruited as a 6’5 SF), Shan Foster, Alex Gordon, George Drake, Jermaine Beal, JeJuan Brown (may not have been top150, not sure), Keegan Bell, Andre Walker (doesn’t even call himself a big man on twitter), Brad Tinsley, Jeff Taylor, Lance Goulbourne, John Jenkins, Kyle Fuller, Rod Odom, Dai-Jon Parker, Kedren Johnson
Top 150 Post Players (5) : Davis Nwanko, Julian Terrell, Festus Ezeli, A.J. Ogilvy, Steve Tchiengang
Simply put, our most talented players often tend to be smaller guys, leaving only 1-2 big men per generation to man the post in practice. The rest are just converted SFs who either can’t adjust to banging underneath or lack the body to do it consistently. It just hasn’t been as big a priority for this team. Whether that’s playing a big role in this team’s toughness in the paint or not is up for debate, but it’s an interesting side to the argument. Is this team’s dependence on bringing in smaller, quicker players limiting their toughness? I think that’s more likely than the fact that these kids tend to have more of a prep school background.
Other than Tchiengang, Ogilvy, and Ezeli
by Christian D'Andrea on Feb 23, 2011 12:48 AM EST up reply actions
This may be a function of fewer big men earning spots in the top 150, their rarity on elite teams, or otherwise
I’m sure there’s no direct correlation, but it’s an interesting breakdown. Even if you consider Walker/Carroll/Goulbourne as post-playing PFs, it’s still a pretty big preference for swingmen/guards.
by Christian D'Andrea on Feb 23, 2011 1:09 AM EST up reply actions
I understand we have a guard-heavy system,
but why can’t we recruit one guy (PF/C) who just gets after it, every single play of the game? Every time there’s a shot, boom, he’s sprinting to the offensive boards, and isn’t afraid to go up strong and get to the free throw line…StevieT did a great job on the offensive boards last night, but you can see that he’s still afraid of drawing contact and getting to the line; he would rather pump fake until everybody is out of his way and get the easy basket. (Aside: there’s nothing wrong with 2 points, but when you’re a good FT shooting team, why not take every opportunity to get the other team in foul trouble and get to the line – see last year’s team).
I keep picturing a guy like Rick Jackson of Syracuse (Rivals 4* recruit, #103 in the nation – definitely the kind of player Vandy can get); not the tallest or most talented big guy out there, but his work ethic is just relentless and he’s not afraid to mix it up. Don’t get me wrong: Fes is a revelation compared to the Ogilvys and Skuchases of the past; and I hope he sticks around because I think he’s developing that passion and fire you see in guys who love to play the game. I’m just saying I think if you’re CKS and you run the guard-heavy system we do, you need bangers inside, not just bodies.
by Bob_Loblaw_Law_Blog on Feb 23, 2011 9:36 AM EST up reply actions
I don't know
Maybe CKS doesn’t get it done in big games. I don’t know. I mean, it’s hard to be pissed at a coach who just won the last 5 in a row. To me, the offense did look pretty ugly in the 2nd half, but it also just didn’t look like the guys were doing anything.
It is kind of hard for me to listen to CKS sometimes after games like that. He really doesn’t mince words, and he sure puts it on the guys. He takes blame for not having the guys ready, but there’s usually a major bit of “in the end, the players have to play.”
I guess if you win it’s the right way, if you lose it’s the wrong way.
I don’t totally buy into Stallings being fired or anything, he’s got us in a great spot, even if the wins were uniformly disgusting for some reason or other. Maybe your right, but maybe it’s just a reaction to an ugly game.
So for my, maybe right, maybe ridiculous overreaction, I’m about sick of Jeff Taylor. JJ has one bad game in all of SEC, and of course we lose it, because JT was awful. He scored 9, only 2 rebounds, Hopson owned him in the 2nd half, 4 TO.
I almost wonder if it may be an Ogilvy situation, where we are better off not having him to let us down. We need a rant thread, for people to put their angry incoherent disappointed ramblings.
Puke
I rush through my mock trial, make no objections, and head for Memorial. I walk through the door just in time to hear the first half end.
That had to be our worst showing of the year. It was almost surreal. Maybe because I missed the first half, maybe from being in the upper deck instead of down in the student section, I don’t know, it was just weird to watch.
This was the about ugliest thing I’ve ever seen. P.S. it sucks paying for tickets. It also sucks sitting in a section with hill people.
Also, how about that for a ref switch. Now, let me start by saying that, in no way did the refs lose it for us, and I was too far away to really judge many calls anyway. But I show up at the half and no one has any fouls, then in the 2nd half Fes and Steve foul out, both teams in double bonus. I don’t know if it’s right or wrong, and again, it didn’t cost us the game or anything, but it just gets on my nerves.
It was definitely painful
You’re right the refs didn’t lose it but there was absolutely no consistency in the game calling. I’ve watched a lot of basketball this year over several different conferences and the SEC officials appear to be some of the worst – at least in terms of being consistent and letting a game get into some kind of rhythm. They allowed UT to play their kind of ball all night – the guy guarding Jenkins was continually pulling and tugging on his shirt and it seemed to really bother John. He was fouled on several attempts with no call – I sit in the 3rd row of section J so I get a pretty good view of our offense in the 2nd half.
That said, we simply lost this game. Had a runout to go up by double digits and turn the ball over – layup for UT. Several of those kind of mental lapses hit us tonight – including missing critical free throws and it just seemed to do us in.
I’ll always be a Dore fan and I’m really getting to where I absolutely despise anything orange. I think I’ll raise some white pumpkins this year to get away from that putrid color at Halloween!
why did it take us so long to foul in the final minute?
The fact that we even had a chance at the end of the game is absurd, but we did… That is until a bunch of critical mistakes were made. Why did it take so long to foul? Why did stallings not call a timeout a run a play? WHY ARE WE SO BAD AT CLOSING GAMES? It looked like a coaching and lack of preparation problem to me at the end….
I couldn’t be more pissed about the fact that the UT defense chants we’re louder at the end of the game than our chants…. our team has got to be partially a reflection of our fan base. I can’t really put my finger on it, but it’s almost like people are too reserved/polite in the south to really yell. Oh wait, that’s not it, because the hill people in orange were loud… I welcome your thoughts
Either way- I am pissed.
Memorial Gym
That’s the answer to your question about fouling. I was sitting in level 3 behind the coaches. When UT brought the ball in at like 58 seconds, CKS was signalling for a foul immediately. Slapping his hand, making exaggerated shoving motions, another coach, I think Muller, was there with him calling out and signalling.
But no one was looking. They just weren’t focused. No way in our own gym we shouldn’t have known to look down the court to our coach.
CKS was signalling nonstop the entire time they came down the court until someone fouled. Shoot, after about 10 seconds I signalling too. It was ridiculous. Down like 4 or 5 under a minute, and their heads were out of it.
by The Goche on Feb 23, 2011 10:11 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
That was visible on the telecast.
It gave me the impression that the team was shell-shocked from blowing their lead.
by gumbercules on Feb 23, 2011 10:23 AM EST up reply actions
Maybe I'm imagining things
But it riles me to no end to see this team perimeter passing while mostly standing around. Was I dreaming back in the days when Fogler was coaching that every player on the floor was in constant motion, doing what I called “the weave” and you got benched when you stopped looking for the one good screen? Maybe I’m wrong, but Fogler’s offense would seemingly be unstoppable with the talent level this team has.
To stand flat-footed on a lot of possessions while JJ runs a mini-marathon in the half court by himself is killing me. They can’t seem to get one nice double stacked pick where the defense isn’t right in a shooter’s face. No decent inside out ball movement as well. When the ball goes to the post, it seems they draw double or triple coverage…so where’s the pass back out to the someone who isn’t guarded?
Perhaps I’m seeing things that aren’t really true, but I’m grasping at straws as to why they become so damned ineffective in some games when faced with a team with a little quickness.
I've noticed that recently, too.
It hit me the other day when I kept watching teams that had great hand offs where the person with the ball was still on the move. We tend to get the ball down the court and pick it up. Then people have to come to the ball instead of the ball coming to them. Both ways will work, but when one stops working, it helps to have the other skill, too.
by doredarling on Feb 23, 2011 10:43 AM EST up reply actions
To me this game wasn't about coaching
In the second half neither offense was worth a damn. The first 8 minutes or so Tennessee looked more lost on offense than any team I’ve ever seen.
Basically the game was won by one person, Hopson, stepping up, and no one on our team stepping up to match.
I’ve never seen two teams just pass the ball around until the shot lock ran low or they turned it over than I did in the second half last night.
by The Goche on Feb 23, 2011 10:15 AM EST via mobile reply actions
We suck
I went to San Jose last year and was disappointed. This year was supposed to be different but we really sucked bad last night. Worst game I have ever seen Vanderbilt play. It wasn’t that Tennessee did anything any different. Our offensive just sucked. I am going on a cruise and I will not be watching any more basketball this season. Good luck guys!
Where are you going on the cruise?
Are you going to buy the optional excursion packages?
by gumbercules on Feb 26, 2011 10:01 AM EST up reply actions
Goulbourne and Tinsley
They need to be replaced asap!
You have no opinion in this matter
See your post of Feb 23, 2011, 9:37 a.m. CST
If you want to give up on the team you can’t also complain about them. I can assure you, you will not have to deal with either Goulbourne or Tinsley on your cruise.
If you want to give up on a team that is 20-7 and 5-1 in their last six, that’s your right.
Since you're done watching basketball this season...
you should go ahead and assume that Coach Stallings sought out and followed your advice.
Also, please don’t come back next year. Thanks.
As it turns out
When CKS looked there were no free agents available to play PG or PF. We need to discuss the free agent structure in the next CBA…
[friend whispers in my ear]
Oh… this is college…
So you can’t replace players midseason…
No free agents to sign..??? Really? I did not know that…
What about the trading deadline?
NO TRADES!??!?!?!? ZOMG HOW ARE WE SUPPOSED TO FIX THESE PROBLEMS!!!?!?!?!?
SO WE JUST HAVE TO PLAY WITH THESE PLAYERS ALL YEAR!!!
HOW ARE WE EVER GOING TO WIN WITH THE LEADING ASSIST GUY IN THE SEC PLAYING PG???
GLOOOOOOOM!!! DOOOOOM!!!! GOING ON CRUUUUUIIIIISE!
by The Goche on Feb 23, 2011 1:12 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
We have a great team
We just stunk it up last night. UT wanted it more, and they beat us. We got what we deserved.
The players just weren’t in it mentally. Stallings mentioned that the two days of practice prior the team seemed to just not have the same mental edge that they’d had in the last couple weeks. Clearly that carried over.
We didn’t take care of the ball, and there’s never an excuse for carelessness, especially when you are going to get everyone’s best shot from game to game. Nobody really seemed to want to step up.
I think, with the way the team had really been playing lately, that their gameplan — to shut down John — really was the deciding factor. Pearl decided that they were going to absolutely shut down John Jenkins, and that if other players stepped up to beat them, so be it. Nobody did. We didn’t call his bluff. Ballgame.
I really hope Jeff learns from tonight. His lack of aggression is a major problem for the team. When Stallings references the selfishness of players, selfishness for Jeff is lack of aggression. He has way too much talent not to be willing to shoulder this team when they need someone to step up. John can only do so much. Taylor has all the athleticism in the world to take the load against a team like Tennessee.
I have all the confidence in the world that he will get there.
Festus and Steve ABSOLUTELY CANNOT make stupid fouls. Their fouling out was the nail in the coffin. 9 fouls in the second half.
Finally, REBOUND THE DAMN BASKETBALL. I’d rather they get called for the foul going for a loose ball than stand there and attempt to take a charge. I have zero confidence in refs calling blocks and charges. Zero. This is a universal basketball complaint. It is too damn difficult to make that call correctly every time.
Anchor of Gold
Twitter: AOG/JAWiv
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by KingJamesIV on Feb 23, 2011 12:11 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
The things that went wrong last night aren’t end-of-the-world type stuff. My only problem with some of the faults is that they are fixable, yet they keep showing themselves. Basically, evertying that KJIV said above falls into this category.
Some things aren’t fixable in the short term. Again, some lack of basketball IQ hurt us last night. When UT took a baseline jumper, fat Brian Williams positioned himself on the far side and the reb went right to him. That’s fine really, Festus will eventually get some of the finer points.
It was a crappy game, and hopefully they can get better from it. Like you said, “I have all the confidence in the world that he will get there.” I think that applies to the whole team. It will happen. You can see Jeff boiling under the surface, waititing to erupt. I got my fingers crossed that good things will come. We’ll see in Rupp what this team is made of, and I got faith we’ll be at least in it towards the end.
I’m not going to rag on any players. Brad Tinsley played really hard last night and deserves kudos. Jeff played incredible defense on Hopkins until Hopkins took the game over. Goldbourne played pretty good defense on Harris. You can tell Festus wants the ball, and he knew last night no one on the court could match his play. Andre passed well and was getting back into the game. Overall, its not the end of the world. Tough loss.
What do you guys think about Walker vs. Odom’s minutes? I’ve been really impressed with Rodom’s defense and shooting, and maybe some of that was missing last night. It’ll be interesting how the 4 spot plays out for the rest of the year. Stallings has some serious work ahead of him, and he’ll earn his paycheck in the next month. I mean JJ had three guys on him when he caught the ball sometimes last night – there’s gotta be a way to exploit that. Again, tough loss, but I got all the faith in the world in our guys. Go Vandy!
The worst thing about the game
Even the UT fans didn’t think they were going to win. They were frustrated, they were just yelling for S. Pearl to shoot 3s. They had NOTHING going on offense until we gave it to them.
The did defend well, they shut down John without leaving any gaping holes for everyone else, but like you say, we should have still been able to score. Guys like Jeff and Brad shouldn’t need gaping holes to get points.
But it wasn’t their defense that got them back into the game. For the first few minutes it’s like we were scoring like once in four trips, but they were scoring once in 6. They had NOTHING going offensively.
We let them back into the game with the turnovers. These weren’t even turnovers that were caused by their D, these were turnovers caused by us being stupid.
They had nothing going and we gave them something.
Also, REBOUND.
It seems like I’ve spent the last 22 years of my life screaming “REBOUND FOR GODSAKE” at somebody.
"Well, if that ain't a show, I'll kiss your ass." - Gov. Jim Folsom Sr. (D-AL), 1948-52
Bad games happen
Other than the fact that it was Tennessee, this game bothers me a lot less than many of our other losses (including Florida, Mizzou, Tennessee I, and South Carolina). The team was flat from the start, and frankly had no business leading at halftime. It certainly was not a good loss, but it’s a good reminder that this team is not good enough to beat teams that are better than UGA and Auburn with similarly sloppy efforts.
In Knoxville, we really collapsed and started playing an entirely different game once we went up 17. That sucked and is something that the team really needed to work on. Conversely, the difference last night was that Tennessee played marginally better on the offensive end for the last 12 minutes of the game, while we played marginally worse. We actually played terribly on offense for all 40 minutes, though we saved the worst for the final 5:01. Turnovers and rebounding killed us especially. I give some credit to Pearl’s defensive scheme, but the fact is that every SEC team we play focuses on John Jenkins. The difference last night was that we failed to protect the ball. ESPN showed a lowlight reel at the end of the game which showed just how many stupid turnovers we made over the course of the game. Kyle Fuller behind the back. Lance tripping. Jeff tripping. Jenkins trying to dribble around four defenders. Ugh.
Regardless, I am not concerned about this team’s ability to play at Memorial. I don’t think Tennessee exposed any fatal flaws in our team’s system or provided a blueprint on how to beat us. Instead, it was just a bad game. Turnovers, rebounding, and poor shot selection. If we have those problems against Kentucky and Florida, we will lose those games as well. If those problems cause us to lose once every six games, I just hope the loss takes place in the last game of the regular season and not during the SECT or NCAAT.
but seriously...
was no one else bothered by the amount of UT fans making more noise than us?
Our fan base is complacent… just because it has been like that in the past, doesn’t mean that it makes ANY sense. How do we teach Vandy fans how to cheer and not be shut up by something like a smart timeout by Bruce “I hate that f-ing jacket” Pearl? Or when UT fans make noise, to make more noise than them… Because our team needs to learn the same mentality.
I was making plenty of noise.
My wife was sitting on the other couch and kept asking me what my problem was. Then she looked up and saw the final score, and realized what the problem was. I probably made too much noise.
I don't know how the arena was miked
but it seemed like it was getting awful quiet on the radio broadcast, and not at a good time either. Then again, it’s tough to make noise when you’ve just pissed away an 11 point home lead over your archenemy…
"Well, if that ain't a show, I'll kiss your ass." - Gov. Jim Folsom Sr. (D-AL), 1948-52
Lack of Leadership on the Floor
I think what last night and some of our other critical losses has shown is that this team lacks leadership on the floor when the game gets tight. This team is exponentially more talented than both our 2004 and 2007 Sweet 16 teams; however, what those teams had were guys who when the game got tight were willing to put the other players on their back and carry them to the finish line. In 2004 it was Matt Freije and in 2007 we had Derrick Byars. If you don’t believe me go back and watch the YouTube of the 2004 2nd Round win over NC State. What this team needs is a guy like Freije or Byars and we have guys on this team who are every bit as talented, but right now are just not getting it done. There’s no excuse for that.
Freije did not get much done in 2003 and Byars did not get much done in 2006
I agree with your point, but I think the reality might be that this year’s team has a shot to be pretty damn good, while next year’s team has a shot to be great – not just by Vandy standards, but nationally.
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