Same Old Vanderbilt? Commodores Lose Heartbreaker to Tennessee in Overtime, 21-27
This season had showcased anything but the Vanderbilt teams that have dominated the past 30 years of Commodore history, mixing dominant wins with gritty performances in a 5-5 campaign. Unfortunately, Saturday's rivalry game with Tennessee brought back all the bad memories that come with being a Vandy fan.
Vanderbilt lost to Tennessee 21-27 in overtime after missed opportunities and questionable calls marred a tough Commodore performance in Neyland Stadium. Vandy watched a 21-14 lead dissipate as Tennessee capitalized on Commodore mistakes and questionable calls to earn the win. It was the Volunteers' 28th win since 1982 against the 'Dores.
Tennessee led at the half 14-7 thanks to a smothering defense and Vanderbilt's inability to KICK A DAMN FIELD GOAL. Ryan Fowler missed attempts from 42 and 34 yards to leave points on the board and ensure that James Franklin would go for every fourth down attempt inside Tennessee territory. Vandy tied the game up at 14-14 behind Archibald Barnes's 100-yard pick six of Tyler Bray, but the Commodore offense stalled after losing a pair of key offensive linemen, making Jordan Rodgers an easy target for a vociferous Tennessee pass rush in the pocket.
However, it was an earlier 3rd quarter play that left a bad taste in the mouths of Vandy fans everywhere. Rodgers scrambled right and hit a wide-open Chris Boyd for a 70+ yard gain to the UT one-yard line. However, the play was called back on a clipping call that had little impact on the play itself. In the span of two plays, the Commodores had gone from a potential first-and-goal at the UT one to a 2nd-and-46 at the Vanderbilt 1.
Vandy still managed to lead after pinning UT inside their own five yard line and recovering their ensuing punt on the Tennessee 35 yard line. The team turned 3rd-and-20 into a first down in the red zone, leading to a VU touchdown and a 21-14 lead with 12:21 to play. Rodgers hung in the pocket just long enough to deliver a perfect strike to Chris Boyd for a 20 yard score in a surefire highlight reel play.
But Tennessee came back, and every Vanderbilt fan felt a slow trickle of bile rise in their throats in response.
Tauren Poole led the Vols most of an 80 yard drive that seemed to have stalled at the Vandy five. The 'Dores blocked Michael Palardy's field goal and looked to be in control of the game, but Sean Richardson got called for running into the kicker, giving UT fourth-and-goal from the two. They went for it, and Da'Rick Rogers's incredible catch in the corner of the end zone tied the game up at 21-21.
Vandy had a chance to win late, driving into UT territory, but Rodgers was intercepted by Prentiss Wagner with just 20 seconds remaining at the Tennessee 35. The game went to overtime, where Rodgers was intercepted again, and this time the Volunteers returned the turnover 90 yards for a touchdown, piling onto the drinking problems of Commodore fans across the country.
Both teams are now 5-6 after Saturday's contest. Vandy will have to beat Wake Forest next week to ensure bowl eligibility with a sixth win. Franklin and his 'Dores lost a great opportunity to prove that they were a different team than in years past. Unfortunately, losing a heartbreaker to Tennessee, based off bad mistakes and questionable calls, was probably the most familiar thing Commodore fans have seen all season.
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WHAT DID WE DO TO DESERVE THIS
Anyway, after the running into the kicker call, I think we all knew this was coming.
Reminds me of '07
when we had the lead in the 4th quarter with UT punting and we could basically just run a few plays to end the game – ended up running into the kicker and they won in the last couple of minutes – had the same exact feeling tonight after the blocked field goal – ah well – there’s always basketball and next year…..
Exactly
After that play it was hard to not to think “Here we go again…” And sure enough, there we went.
by Pope Vanderbilt on Nov 21, 2011 11:08 AM EST up reply actions
Still obviously impressed by Vandy.
Great QB, great energy. Obviously the end of this game will come back to the refs, but I’m glad — both as a fan of UT and as a fan of the game — that the refs went back and corrected that last play. The TD should have counted in the end… and let’s be serious, those refs wanted to keep on living.
A great game, though. As a guy who lives in Wake’s backdoor, I hope — and expect — you guys to blow the doors off of the Deacons.
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Boom. Here comes the Boom. Braydy or not. Here comes the boy from the West.
Thanks bud. Go get bowl eligible next week.
by Christian D'Andrea on Nov 19, 2011 11:02 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I'm going to say it again just for clarity
1) We got the yips. We were too damn tight, we let the world talk us up, and we lost our shit.
2) I don’t like throwing a kid under the train, but Jelesky needs to run stairs until he vomits. Preferably before being allowed on the bus home tonight. We’re going to get a reputation and we’re going to deserve it. Cut. That. Shit. Out.
3) Yes, by rule the running-into-the-kicker call is correct. If this is LSU-Alabama, or Florida-Georgia, or the like, that flag doesn’t fly.
4) The officiating in this game was a war crime. I’m not even talking about biased officiating – I’m talking about the sheer incompetence that goes along with calling a guy down who wasn’t down, blowing a whistle, and then dicking around for several minutes. The SEC has surpassed the Pac-12 for officials who look like their first reaction to a rulebook is to color in it, and it’s an embarrassment to have that on the field in what is supposedly the best conference in football.
We had it, we gave it away. I’m not depressed, I’m not despairing, I’m just angrier than I’ve ever been after a loss.
We are getting there. We will get there. But we are not there yet.
"Well, if that ain't a show, I'll kiss your ass." - Gov. Jim Folsom Sr. (D-AL), 1948-52
Good points
I especially liked the comment about the rule coloring book – angry and sad – that’s 4 games we had and lost – it is truly difficult to be a Vandy football fan….
Spot us one key play back in every game...
…and we’re 8-3 right now.
"Well, if that ain't a show, I'll kiss your ass." - Gov. Jim Folsom Sr. (D-AL), 1948-52
by VandyImport on Nov 19, 2011 11:05 PM EST up reply actions
Oh, ignore me ...
Florida isn’t quite as cut and dried as ‘one key play’ … so 8-3’s probably right … but, that could very easily have been a win, too.
yeah, I'm assuming two for Florida
i.e. we make ONE DAMN FIELD GOAL and they miss that absurd sniper kick at the end of the half WHY DO I HAVE TO SUPPORT VANDY AND CAL AND THE REDSKINS GOD HATES ME I WISH I WERE DEAD.
"Well, if that ain't a show, I'll kiss your ass." - Gov. Jim Folsom Sr. (D-AL), 1948-52
by VandyImport on Nov 21, 2011 12:09 PM EST up reply actions
I'm a Panther's fan.
/wrists.
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Boom. Here comes the Boom. Braydy or not. Here comes the boy from the West.
The Jelesky block...
That was beyond belief. The ball was 30 yards down the field in the air. The block was completely unnecessary not to mention wanton. That was one of the huge momentum changers – from UT’s 1 yard line to 2 and 46 or something in a about a minute.
And though it sounds craven, I kind of agree that the running into the kicker does not get called against one of the big-time SEC programs. Just a feeling.
by Pope Vanderbilt on Nov 21, 2011 11:14 AM EST up reply actions
Only the Archie Barnes miracle saved that from being the play that sank the game
I don’t know what the hell is going on with the O-line, but Coach Hand needs to sort that shit out with a quickness. I’m out of patience for that kind of stupidity.
"Well, if that ain't a show, I'll kiss your ass." - Gov. Jim Folsom Sr. (D-AL), 1948-52
by VandyImport on Nov 21, 2011 12:10 PM EST up reply actions
Field Goal
I am so disgusted with our field goal kickers that I could scream. I just hope that they are not on scholarship because they are not deserving.
How many games have we lost because of them!
Ruling in OT makes no sense
“On the last play of the Vanderbilt-Tennessee game, in overtime, the Tennessee defender intercepted the pass, his knee did not touch the ground and he returned the interception for a touchdown. During the play, the head linesman incorrectly ruled that the Tennessee player’s knee was down when he intercepted the pass by blowing his whistle and giving the dead ball signal. The play was reviewed as if there was no whistle on the field and as a result, overturned the incorrect ruling. By rule, if there was a whistle blown, the play is not reviewable.”
What does that mean?
It means the SEC Head of Officiating says
The call should not have been reviewed, but that it was a really bad whistle. Which is what we all knew anyways: the difference is, I think, that the ref who did blow the whistle told the head ref that he DID NOT blow the whistle later right before the call was looked at and overturned. (I’m not sure if they have in-game audio in the replay booths either, FWIW.)
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Boom. Here comes the Boom. Braydy or not. Here comes the boy from the West.
Blowing the whistle
He either blew the whistle or he did not. If he blew the whistle and lied about it, then he should be fired!
The play should not have been reviewed...
but we all know it was a horrible call in the first place. That said, it seems we get the obscure calls – roughing the kicker – but not the blatent pass interference and other calls – like I told my dad – we have to win by three touchdowns or the refs will find some way to help the other team – this is one big reason why it is so hard to play for vandy – you will never get the benefit of the doubt from any ref – it sucks but that is the way it is in the SEC.
FWIW
You did get the “Ball carrier stiff-arms to the facemask” call tonight, which I have never seen called. That roughing the kicker penalty was… special. The right call, but special. And I agree, the ref that blew the INT dead shouldn’t be blowing any whistles in the SEC anymore. You err on the side of “not down”.
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Boom. Here comes the Boom. Braydy or not. Here comes the boy from the West.
Larger problem...
I think the larger problem here is that there is some kind of odd dichotomy when it comes to what is challenge-able and what is not. So if the call is that the interception is clean and results in a TD, Vandy has the right to challenge. But if he is ruled down, then UT does not have the right to challenge?!? Each team only has one challenge flag. Just make any call challenge-able. If a coach wants to be foolish and use his challenge on a judgement call like pass interference, holding or whatever, so be it. Why are there rules dictating what can and cannot be challenged, especially when the rules change on a given play depending on how an official calls it. Dumb.
It's a safety issue.
If a whistle is blown, the players are supposed to stop. Period. If you set up a situation in the rules where the players have incentive to keep playing, then you risk having some players continue while others stop, and that presents an injury risk, especially if the ball carrier slows up and a tackler doesn’t.
Had that not been blown dead, the challenge would have been valid due to the continuation of the play. But once an official blows a whistle, it’s supposed to be sacrosanct. The only exception (and I’m not 100% if the NCAA does this even though the NFL does) is for fumble recoveries. And with fumbles, players that continue are going after a ball, not another player.
It’s a problem, but there really isn’t a better solution.
by David Hooper on Nov 20, 2011 1:13 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I don't think I've ever seen a facemask call on an offensive player before...
…but it happens constantly. Every single week, a guy stiffarms a defender and you get a hand to the facemask that. at least in the old days, would be an incidental 5-yard penalty if committed by a defender. I don’t know what the rule is now – and I don’t mean I don’t know the black-letter law, I mean don’t know what rises to the level of drawing a flag in actual practice. And that’s what drives me nuts about this conference (and the Pac-12, but that’s a different story).
"Well, if that ain't a show, I'll kiss your ass." - Gov. Jim Folsom Sr. (D-AL), 1948-52
by VandyImport on Nov 21, 2011 12:29 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, happens constantly.
And I’d like to see it start being called. One problem I noticed on the play called was that, in Poole’s case, it looked like his arm got stuck there between the extended arms of the tackler trying to get him Out of Bounds. He definitely had his hand all over the facemask, but I don’t think he twisted it or tried to use the facemask as some sort of dangerous advantage — ie, at no point of that play did I think. “Oh wow, he could break his neck doing that.”
FWIW, the Vandy player who picked up the ball after the “block” also stuck his hand all over a Tennessee player’s facemask, as I recall in live-time (so don’t quote me too seriously if I’m wrong). Just goes to show it happens a lot.
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Boom. Here comes the Boom. Braydy or not. Here comes the boy from the West.
Blocked Field Goal
“Every obscure rule that could possibly… I was explained the rule, we blocked the field goal to win the game. They said we ran into the kicker, I didn’t know you could rough the kicker when you block the field goal, but it has to be the same person, I guess, that runs in to the kicker that also blocks it. We did block the kick, but it’s got to be the same person.”
The officials rule is a crock. I hope that the SEC office reviews this. Surely that is not a rule!
did Vandy block the figgie? or did Palardy kick it into the back of the line? I couldn't tell from where I was
Heel for school, Vol for life!
Bolts, Preds, Canes (childhood team, home state team, hometown team). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity!
by Incipient_Senescence on Nov 20, 2011 2:17 AM EST up reply actions
Kicked it into the back of the line.
The kick was so bad it was good. Yeah, Tennessee’s kicking game in a nutshell. Granted, it wasn’t like it was the game-deciding play, either. There were 7 minutes left in the game.
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Boom. Here comes the Boom. Braydy or not. Here comes the boy from the West.
just wanted to say
that when Vandy had just chop-blocked away a tie, and let Tennessee drive the field, and it was about to be a two score game and pretty much be over. . . y’all kept playing. And not only that, actually made legitimately plays. That’s not nothing. Hell, I should know. Tennessee has failed to do exactly that four SEC games in a row. Parts of that game reminded me of last year’s Tennessee/Kentucky game, but Vanderbilt did what Kentucky never did. It’s a start.
Heel for school, Vol for life!
Bolts, Preds, Canes (childhood team, home state team, hometown team). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity!
by Incipient_Senescence on Nov 20, 2011 2:20 AM EST reply actions
Thanks.
It’s nice to read some positive words from outside.
by lsmsrbls on Nov 20, 2011 9:50 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Yeah it was a really great game and you guys easily could have won
You have to feel good about where your program is heading
I like orange and I am a dog person
The integrity of a referee
We all know that there are human elements of the game, of which, referees are one. In baseball, every ump has a different strike zone. In basketball, every ref has a different level of physicality that they are willing to tolerate before making a call. In football, it is the subjectivity of the referees as to when they see a foul and when they blow their whistle.
We all know that with the human element comes mistakes. But we are willing to live with those mistakes thinking, that in the end, everything will come out even.
However, the last call of the game last night was an illustration of why SEC officiating is so bad. Instead of making a call and standing behind it, the referee lied about blowing the whistle and tried to reverse his original call. This is a clear example of a referee trying to make up for his mistake on the field which has the consequence of throwing off the balance of ‘things will come out even in the end’.
To me, an analogy of what happened would be if a RB ran through the line but bumped into the ref and fell down although there was open field all around. That is very unfortunate but not uncommon circumstance in football. However, it would be much worse if the ref conferred with the other judges and decided that the player would have had a touchdown anyways, so let’s just give it to him.
This inequality and subjectivity in the officiating is questionable at best. And for VU fans, this element of ignoring fouls or making up decisions on the field seems to come in every road SEC game. I do not know if these are just poorly trained officials or if something else is at play. But it is difficult enough to win on the road in the SEC when the officiating is neutral. My hope is that someone – Clay Travis I’m talking to you – will look into this more thoroughly.
For UT fans, if this is difficult to understand, I will post a ‘connect the dots’ version later.
Ignoring your condescension
I see why you are mad, and you have a reason to gripe. Your example is not the best though. It should not have been reviewed because of the whistle, but it is not like the Vandy players had actually stopped pursuing. There is no guessing whether he would have scored a TD and there is no question he was not down.
I have been told that the replay for refs does not have sound btw. If the ref that blew his whistle lied about it, he should definitely be fired . You cannot be a ref if you do not have any credibility.
I like orange and I am a dog person
That is the most troubling part of it all.
A ref blowing a whistle and then denying it. That absolutely cannot happen.
by David Hooper on Nov 20, 2011 1:14 PM EST up reply actions
For what it's worth ...
I haven’t lost a moment’s sleep on the last play. Sheer incompetence all around on the part of the officiating crew, but the fact is that the Tennessee player made a damn good play and deserved to score the game winning touchdown.
I’m still pretty pissed off about 1) the idiotic, dirty clipping by Jelesky, 2) the idiotic, dirty running into the kicker call on the field goal, and 3) the idiotic, dirty incompetence by our field goal kickers. Reverse any of those three idiotic things in this game, and Vandy’s probably sitting at 6-5.
Then again … we sucked for two quarters against Georgia (and still could have won with a scoop and score) … we absolutely gave the game away against freaking #3 Arkansas … and we sucked for three quarters against Florida (and still could have won if the refs weren’t legally blind). I can’t exactly be too surprised that we let this one get away …
Tip for Vandy: don’t suck for 2 or 3 quarters against Wake Forest; and don’t throw dirty blocks that have no bearing on the play; and don’t give the refs a chance to screw you out of another win. Then maybe we’ll actually get to a bowl game … despite all of the tangible improvements from the past two years, 5-7 would suck bad.
by BrianSWard on Nov 21, 2011 1:51 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Hanlon's Razor, and Gray's Law
“Never attribute to malice what can be explained by stupidity” and “Any sufficiently advanced stupidity is indistinguishable from malice.”
It’s not that the officials have had it in for Vanderbilt all season, it’s that the officials are – well, for instance, two words: Penn Wagers. I think Team Speed Kills can happily provide annotated results of games called by the SEC Officiating Random Event Generator. Our only problem with that is that we’re not yet good enough to overcome the occasional fit of utter whuckery.*
It would be nice if our QB hadn’t coughed the ball up four times, and if we could hit a placekick. Fix those two things and I’m pretty sure we run away with this game, irrespective of officiating. This team has it in their power to beat the breaks if they just don’t shoot themselves in the foot.
I’m not too broken up about the prospect of 5-7. Wake Forest is better than I anticipated before the season, and given the emotional letdown and the game on the road I wouldn’t predict a win there if I had it to pick over again. I think before the season, if we were told “you’ll be 5-6 and within five plays of 9-2” we would have rioted from joy after two years of no wins but FCS schools and LOL Miss. (We are going to miss Houston Nutt, mark my words.) It’ll be disappointing given how our hopes have been raised, and it’ll suck not to get the extra practice for a team that needs every snap of experience it can get, but as long as our recruits can stay in the fold it’s not going to break my heart to miss out on Birmingham in January. (Why do you think I moved?)
- Whuck is a convenient contraction of WTF and a registered trademark of Tim Goodman, the best TV critic out there.
"Well, if that ain't a show, I'll kiss your ass." - Gov. Jim Folsom Sr. (D-AL), 1948-52
by VandyImport on Nov 21, 2011 12:52 PM EST up reply actions
“2) the idiotic, dirty running into the kicker call on the field goal”
I don’t think that play was dirty, just weird. If Palardy kicks that normally, it’s blocked and a great play. Because it was so low the guy’s hands missed it and forward momentum carried him forwards, and he didn’t aim for the leg or anything. The rule exists so that players coming up the middle better get the ball or else there’s that penalty, because of the way those helmet are attracted to ankles.
I’m more shocked the refs caught that in real-time. That was a shining moment for them. It was like a bicycle-kick in the MLS — incredible that it happened, sure, but that doesn’t change the fact that the rest of the game was horrible.
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Boom. Here comes the Boom. Braydy or not. Here comes the boy from the West.
It was like a bicycle-kick in the MLS — incredible that it happened, sure, but that doesn’t change the fact that the rest of the game was horrible.
Soccer reference? You can’t really both be able to reasonably discuss a football game AND like soccer. That’s just going too far. It’s like you are purposefully attempting to dispel all of the stereotypes about UT (and generally any SEC school) football fans.
This reasonableness exposure is shaking all I’ve ever believed in.
What next? “I think the fall is a lovely time for a Saturday wedding.”
RockyTopTalk's
“ESPN Gameday/Non-UT Live Thread” comment-stream usually starts with a discussion concerning the Premier League. ;-)
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Boom. Here comes the Boom. Braydy or not. Here comes the boy from the West.
OldDore
No need to condescend to the UT fans who have visited here. They have been good interlocutors. I think you may be directing your ire toward the UT fans who have been commenting over on the VSL site.
by Pope Vanderbilt on Nov 21, 2011 11:27 AM EST up reply actions
Yeah, these guys have all been pretty cool. Honestly, I was also impressed by most of the Vol fans I interacted with at the game. Even most of the ones around the stadium after the game weren’t real bad.
I certainly had no problem with the UT fans being happy even though I wished it was me happy and them quite quite sad. But most of them seemed to realize just how foolish it would be to play the big brother card when we just went toe-to-toe (especially when not one of them being honest wouldn’t trade head coaches in a second).
But it was a nice reminder that, while it is one of the most consistently ridiculous fan bases in college football, it is just a insanely, wildly vocal minority.
BTW, lost in all the post-game hubbub from both sides about everyone else being classless, (which is fun for the first few minutes, then grating as hell thereafter) Tyler Bray seemed a bit more mature than he’s been in the past.
Seems like some of the throat slit gesture/hilarious back tattoo brashness has worn off a bit. I noticed him going out of his way to shake hands with several of our guys while the rest of the team celebrated. I particularly noticed him talking to Archie Barnes, which was pretty classy.
I always thought that "Brayness" was a bit over-hyped last year.
The guy’s got a joking personality, and the celebrations of last year were, actually, started by upper-classmen, especially his WRs Denarius Moore and Gerald Jones. Last year it wasn’t Bray’s offense, it was more those two and Poole’s. They were definitely the leaders, along with Luke Stocker. This year he’s been asked to be the leader and he’s responded. He’s always been gracious when facing the other team, it’s just a matter of not looking like a jerk when you’re celebrating with your own, which he has improved on. That’s important for a QB, I think.
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Boom. Here comes the Boom. Braydy or not. Here comes the boy from the West.
Totally disagree
(especially when not one of them being honest wouldn’t trade head coaches in a second).
I wouldn’t want this at all. I’m being honest.
Bring it across, shape it down
by Getoffmyvols on Nov 21, 2011 5:06 PM EST up reply actions
Really?
That’s cool then. Honestly I thought you guys won in spite of him.
I was surprised (and disagreed) when he didn’t go for it instead of kicking the field goal. The whole call timeout, then kneel end to regulation was weird. I don’t know why you don’t go deep there. I just think he plays it safe too much.
I don’t think you guys will ever get back to where you used to be playing conservative, and if we’re pushing it and you guys are playing conservative that’s the best opportunity we have to catch you guys.
Even if you don’t want CJF (who pretty clearly is about perfect for us right now), I have no doubt that you guys could do better than Dooley, not a doubt in my mind.
Dooley is much more aggressive than you're giving him credit for.
This year we’ve had 2 surprise onside kicks, 2-3 fake punts, a fake field goal, etc. We actually go for on 4th and short more than we probably should considering our running game struggles this year. He picks his spots to be aggressive and more often than not the gambles have paid off. I didn’t agree or disagree with the field goal call at the 5 because there was still 7 minutes in the game and we we’re moving the ball well. I am glad he went for it at the 2 though and it paid off.
My opinion of Franklin is that he’s not doing anything that’s necessarily new to Vanderbilt from an on field standpoint. The attitude is new, the swagger is probably refreshing, but Vanderbilt has given SEC teams fits in made games too close for comfort for a long time. The past 3 trips to Neyland for Vanderbilt have been uncomfortable for the Vols. A loss in ’05, the missed field goal in ’07, and even ’09 the game was still in doubt in the 4th quarter.
James Franklin may in fact bring Vanderbilt to new heights, but from my perspective I haven’t seen anything to suggest that yet.
Bring it across, shape it down
by Getoffmyvols on Nov 21, 2011 5:41 PM EST up reply actions
How is taking a team that has been 4-20 for 2 years and leading almost all the same players to 5 wins not changing the on the field product?
In any case, even if he was just the same as an on the field coach as Bobby Johnson, et al. (and the results sure seem to support that he’s at least as good), the recruits he’s bringing in are pretty much guaranteed to take us to new new heights.
I don’t want that to be misconstrued as me saying “I guarantee we’re going to compete for SEC championships” or anything so outlandish, but I think it is living in denial to say that Franklin hasn’t done anything to suggest that he’s taking Vanderbilt to new heights. You can never predict when a plateau will come, but without question he’s got the team on the right trajectory.
Bobby Johnson was who I had in mind.
I think Franklin this year on field reminded me very much of what Bobby Johnson was able to do every couple years. If I read correctly, you guys lose more than 30 seniors after this season. If Franklin is able to carry this level of success over the next couple years with the player turnover and his recruits coming in, then great.
This statement is simply not true.
the recruits he’s bringing in are pretty much guaranteed to take us to new new heights.
There are no guarantees in recruiting, especially with a class that isn’t even signed yet. Not saying it won’t but fhe noise Franklin has made in recruiting is anything but a guarantee of future success. I will fully admit Franklin has a done a good job this year, but he hasn’t accomplished something that hasn’t been accomplished at Vanderbilt before. Not saying he won’t, just saying he hasn’t yet, and he doesn’t have me looking over to Nashville with envy.
Bring it across, shape it down
by Getoffmyvols on Nov 21, 2011 6:17 PM EST up reply actions
The 30 seniors thing isn’t quite right. We only have 11 actual seniors and RS seniors.
The confusion is that Franklin has changed how we do senior day. He’s now honoring all 4th year or later players, whether RS junior, SR, or RS senior, on senior day. That way he doesn’t have to decide which 5th year guys he’s bringing back mid-season.
There will be a lot of RS juniors not returning, but few will be guys that contributed a whole lot.
On offense we only lose one offensive lineman and our TE (who is quite good but has been heinously underused this year). On defense we lose 4 starters, and a DT who would usually start if he wasn’t always injured. That includes probably our best players in all three units (Fugger, Marve and Heyward). That will take some replacement, but isn’t crippling.
I know what you mean about the recruits. My point is just that if he is able to continuously (so it would have to be more than just this year and last year) bring better athletes to campus and more depth to campus than ever before that is going to make a huge difference for a team that has always been limited by such a serious lack of depth. I mean, as a UT fan, you shouldn’t be shocked to know that having more than a couple legit players on campus is a new thing for us.
That's what I want to know...WTF is up with Barden?
He’s a senior, he was our best receiving threat coming in, he got dinged up…and he dropped off the face of the earth. He’s out there, he’s starting – is Jordan just not comfortable throwing to him? Is he still hurt? I can’t tell you how many teams have eked out a living on a TE who’s always there in the flat, so I’m puzzled as to why #6 isn’t happening, unless the management has decided that the passing game will be WR-based and long vertical…
"Well, if that ain't a show, I'll kiss your ass." - Gov. Jim Folsom Sr. (D-AL), 1948-52
Definitely wouldn't.
We had enough of Lane Kiffin our first dip, tyvm. ;-) (Though I think Franklin will play more within the recruiting rules than Kiffin and Orgergegegeron, by a lot. The comparison is there, though, and will be made. Tennessee had a lot of Personal Fouls under Kiffin, and ya’lls O-Line — as you’ve all noted — need to cut that clipping and dirty stuff out, pronto, or it’s going to lead to a really bad rep when combined with Franklin’s … animated-ness.)
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Boom. Here comes the Boom. Braydy or not. Here comes the boy from the West.
I hate the personal fouls. I don’t think they are being coached to play dirty, I think they were all really bad decisions. I think a couple of times they were just bad blocks, and I think others of them have been attempts to play within the rules that failed (and in several cases were unnecessary given where they were on the field, which makes it extra ridiculous). But in any case, it’s bad discipline and it certainly doesn’t help either the reputation or our chances to win.
I really don’t get why everyone is so tweaked by Franklin’s “animated-ness.” He’s not out trying to tweak other teams. It’s not like he said “We’re going to sing ‘Dynamite’ in Neyland all night long.” What has he done beyond say that he really believes in where we can go and act accordingly.
It's where people in UT's fanbase see parrallels between Bruce and Franklin.
He’s not a coach you like from the other sideline, typically. Respect? Sure, but like? And then the first reason to not like him, you won’t. He doesn’t act or say things that make you think he is, himself, a respectful guy at the end of the day. Which isn’t to say that he’s not, but he’s going to be perceived that way based off of his on-the-field/court personae along with what he says between games.
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Boom. Here comes the Boom. Braydy or not. Here comes the boy from the West.
Yeah, I get not liking him. He’s on the other team and he doesn’t back down. I guess due to that I should probably allow just a little bit of exaggeration on the subject. I just don’t buy talk that he’s classless.
We all hated Pearl, but until it actually turned out he was cheating, I don’t think most Vandy fans attributed it to some lack of character. I heard quite a lot, I’d like him as my coach, not mind him as a neutral, hate him as an opponent.
Maybe the class talk is just code for “I don’t like him as my rival’s coach.”
Honest confession time...
I thought Pearl was more fun than any coach out there, and I would have been an unabashed fan if he’d landed anywhere else. He did more than anyone in years to make the basketball rivalry a good time, even if it did almost send me to rehab and/or marriage counseling in ’08…
"Well, if that ain't a show, I'll kiss your ass." - Gov. Jim Folsom Sr. (D-AL), 1948-52
The real difference here is
There’s a lot more … opportunity … to actually dislike an opposing coach in football, because there’s more players spending more time doing more hitting than in basketball. Right now Vandy has to deal with the Georgia spite (which I think is a “bit” overboard at this point in time) over players taking cheap shots for whatever reason — and the showdown with Grantham (classless for real) and Franklin after that game — and that really dirty Clipping call against Tennessee, and the stomping around/rumors (emphasis that they’re rumors). The double-edged sword, if you will.
It’s why Tennessee fans don’t like Calimari: when he was at Memphis (not so much true at Kentucky) he was an arrogant snob who liked to act like his teams “owned” Tennessee despite the on-court results, and his players were a bunch of high-school thugs.
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Boom. Here comes the Boom. Braydy or not. Here comes the boy from the West.
So...
when are you posting it? The ‘connect the dots" version? I’m still waiting.
"It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring, when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone." A. Bartlett Giamatti
That was worrying
We have shown incredible heart in coming back when we get down this year, but we have also found ways to lose every close game we’ve been in, other than UConn. It won’t take many more for this to become a mental hitch that dogs this team on an ongoing basis throughout the Franklin era.
I’m also very sad to read people talking almost exclusively about the refs because they were the least of our problems. Here are the problems I saw, in order of importance, in a game that was a colossal step back for us, pretty much across the board.
1. Rodgers absolutely sucked against a mediocre defense. It’s hard to win when your QB turns the ball over four times. The regression was sickening.
2. We have no FG game whatever. I do not understand how the coaching staff cannot get this fixed up. Even if you grant that the yips will destroy all long FGs, we need to be able to kick them 35 yards and in.
3. The O line regressed mightily, though injuries obviously played a role here. We had basically zero running game for much of the second half, and Rodgers had very little time.
4. We got way too many stupid penalties. It needs to stop. Jelesky needs to be benched until he can get control of himself. If he takes another cheap shot at anyone, he needs to be off the team.
Fans need to stop bitching about the refs every week. Did they make a horrible mistake this week? Yes. But it didn’t cost us the game. We cost ourselves the game about five times over. Even if the call had been made properly, we have almost no chance of winning OT games because offenses basically start in FG range and we have zero FG ability. UT would have gotten the ball, kicked a field goal and won.
by Andrew D. Smith on Nov 20, 2011 9:59 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
The No. 2 team in the country doesn't have a field goal game either.
Except for the LSU game (and that was pretty big), Alabama has not needed a field goal to tie or win a game. Yet.
Very true, but as you mentioned, their lack of a FG will likely cost them the national championship.
And we don’t have, er, quite the talent level at other positions to make up for it.
All else being equal, we’d be 8-3 and ranked well into the top 25 if we had better FG kicking. In college football, the FG kicker may be the second most important man on the field behind the QB. (That’s not true in the NFL because they’re all so good. Picking up a solid one is quite easy.) A great kicker means you basically have some points every time you get inside the 32 yard line. We have no points till we’re in the end zone.
by Andrew D. Smith on Nov 20, 2011 3:01 PM EST up reply actions
y'all definitely should've beaten Arkansas
but both teams can play the what if game last night. Going through the what-ifs, replacing missed FGs with made ones (and no running into the kicker), taking away touchdowns that came pretty much straight from turnovers, and adding a FG for turnovers in the red zone, you come out with Tennessee 20-13. I think I did that right.
Heel for school, Vol for life!
Bolts, Preds, Canes (childhood team, home state team, hometown team). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity!
by Incipient_Senescence on Nov 20, 2011 4:45 PM EST up reply actions
(and I can't comment on UF or UGA--didn't see either one)
Heel for school, Vol for life!
Bolts, Preds, Canes (childhood team, home state team, hometown team). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity!
by Incipient_Senescence on Nov 20, 2011 4:46 PM EST up reply actions
I'm still not OK....
For so many reasons, it is tough to be a Vandy fan. We were so close….
That said, this is the closest that we have been. I guess that makes me feel better? (it doesn’t really)
by CorneliusHimself on Nov 21, 2011 11:34 AM EST reply actions
One thing that surprised me about this game
That they whipped us in the running game. The little bit I’ve watched UT this season they haven’t had much running the ball. Especially since we’ve done a good job against the run this year, I didn’t think their run game would be a huge factor, but Poole had a great game.
I think that their running game, and their ability to limit our running game was the key. Even though a lot of the big plays were passing game mistakes, I think that they somewhat evened out. Their ability to run the ball (especially on that last drive) really killed us.
One thing I thought was weird was how Bray in the middle of the field, was really really good, but if we pinned them inside their 10 he looked lost. It was just odd how bad some of his throws were from deep in his own end compared to everywhere else.
Re: Bray
Part of that is, I think, him not being 100% and returning after missing all those games. The middle of the field you see teams with a bit looser coverage, typically, as you don’t want to sell-out to go for a sack and potential safety or great field position, or can’t just rush 3 or 4 and drop 8 and have guys everywhere. Bray has been great in the red zone and such outside of this game but, yeah, looked like a bit of struggling there from him.
Granted, the fades to Rodgers have been unstoppable whenever Tennessee’s gone to them in the red zone, so I don’t know why that’s not always a big circled play — though it might be. Both of Rodger’s TDs came on single coverage, which should just not happen with an All-SEC receiver.
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Boom. Here comes the Boom. Braydy or not. Here comes the boy from the West.

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